tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post112052953468203997..comments2023-12-04T09:29:06.375-08:00Comments on Casa Valdez Studios: improvisation: Free Jazz and The function of freedomDavid Carlos Valdezhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02338319345488366328noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-1155709307712113942006-08-15T23:21:00.000-07:002006-08-15T23:21:00.000-07:00My opinion: Louis Armstrong, Lester Young and Char...My opinion: Louis Armstrong, Lester Young and Charlie Parker were playing "out" and "free" from where they were coming from during their time... Eric Dolphy was really just doing Charlie Parker's thing in a post Charlie Parker time-period. And so on...Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02713769114820627121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-1121196412739524032005-07-12T12:26:00.000-07:002005-07-12T12:26:00.000-07:00Fellarswe're really talking two different things. ...Fellars<BR/>we're really talking two different things. For very consumer-simple reasons the "label" exists. When we're looking at the 100-year history of this great four-letter word, the labels exist to aid simple-minded critics and uninitiated consumers. They're a bane and a boon. Without them, one curious, but not in the know might, say buy a Kenny G album instead of a Kenny Garrett or Dexter Gordon side. Like with the production of kitsch, the tyranny of the music industry shrinks great art and ideas into small negotiable forms that can be packaged for easier consumption.<BR/><BR/>That said-it's naive to think distinctions don't exist and blame the identity crises of jazz on the dogmatism of the Marsalis-Crouch bunch. If anything it's the cynicism of the record industry that keeps reconstituting simple forms like the "chick singer" (Monheit, Krall et al), the young lion (take your pick), the crossover (Bad Plus) and goading people into believing they're "making jazz relevant" again.<BR/><BR/>Joe, I think we're all saying a similar saw-that we like players that straddle the line between a more free sense of play and traditional form. David, I'll disagree-there isn't a wide gulf between in and out; rather there's a narrow chasm and continuum between the two that a few people have found the secret skeleton key for (Mehldau, Frisell, Garzone, Gross, Paul Bley, etc.). . .and like Joe sez they just "play." What prevents people from getting there is fear and an embrace of (what Dave Storrs says makes this music work) "trust and forgiveness." They're also not teaching kiddies to take risks-students might learn to transcribe Coltrane, but not the process by which his approach transgressed lateral thinking.<BR/><BR/>Gosh this is fun.<BR/>TdRAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-1121160440069969312005-07-12T02:27:00.000-07:002005-07-12T02:27:00.000-07:00I am surprised that you won’t admit that there is ...I am surprised that you won’t admit that there is quite a difference between inside and outside playing. Maybe you don’t see it as much because you don’t think harmonically, being a drummer. There is a wide gulf between the two. It’s very silly to think that there is no difference between the ‘in’ and ‘out’. That is like saying that we shouldn’t label music as ‘consonant’ or ‘dissonant’ or ‘tonal’ or ‘atonal’, let’s just call it all music and not be restrictive.<BR/>These labels are simply ways to describe actualities. They do not constrict creativity in the player. <BR/><BR/>There is a rich tradition of Jazz that has been passed down to us through generations of players. To not want to ‘label’ it as Jazz is to ignore what we have inherited. Let’s just call it ‘music’ and blend it with any random style you happen to pull out of your ass. This kind of thinking is like inventing your own language and then trying to speak to others with it. You might say to someone, being so very creative,”Splarg floosh fwahpah flarpah poogle-schmolrsh beerp.”<BR/>You would find it very hard to make yourself understood and probably end up being frustrated and thinking to yourself,” They don’t appreciate my unbridled and highly original creativity.” Jazz is not just a label, it is a universal language that is spoken all over the globe. If you are interested in communicating with other ‘Jazz’ players or listeners, then you need to learn speak this common language in a way that can be understood. If you want to invent your own language called ‘Splarg Floosh’ or ‘Extreme Afro-techno-Hebrew fusion’ then you will only be able to converse with a few other people. Another solution that people try is to combine words from many different languages. This is a good way everyone will be able to understand only snippets of what you are saying. <BR/><BR/>I am all for trying new things, don't get me wrong. Many revolutionary things have been tried with Jazz, like 'Heavy-Metal Be-Bop' for example, but these experiments have for the most part not stood the test of time. It helps to be standing solidly on the shoulders of our musical forefathers before we try to fly.David Carlos Valdezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02338319345488366328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-1121159373692171892005-07-12T02:09:00.000-07:002005-07-12T02:09:00.000-07:00I also don't really agree with the labels "in" and...I also don't really agree with the labels "in" and "out" in general. I would rather someone "plays" music and not worry about styles or categories. I think one of the downfalls of jazz in the present day and recent past is an identity crisis which lies on labeling itself way to much. Wynton Marsalis has been culpible of that, and sadly I recently heard Branford now jumping on that same bandwagon. It is kind of like the desire to be prideful of their blackness through it's history, rather than the energy of struggle, resistance, experimentation etc.... that it came from. I like players like Brad Meldhau, Kieth Jarret, Henry Threadgill, even Bill Frisell, to name but a few that are not concerned with the label of in or out but just play music and let it all come out. <BR/> This is what your probably referring to but I personally would leave the duality out of it and find another way to describe it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-1120590034486142512005-07-05T12:00:00.000-07:002005-07-05T12:00:00.000-07:00Thanks for the link. Plenty of golden nuggets in ...Thanks for the link. Plenty of golden nuggets in your blogs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-1120587208380805462005-07-05T11:13:00.000-07:002005-07-05T11:13:00.000-07:00I would add to the list of players who use inside ...I would add to the list of players who use inside and outside plaing equally well: Paul Bley, Han Bennink/Misha Mengelberg, Paul Motian-I also think a player like John Gross (and Billy Mintz, for that matter) is adept at employing/deploying free strategies. . .or more aptly bending the frame. It's almost a distillation as opposed to free music's usual expansive mode.<BR/><BR/>The biggest obstacle is in the codification of how jazz is <BR/>taught-it's too lick-centric and formulaic. If more emphasis were <BR/>placed on individual voice instead of transcription and emulation <BR/>there would be less of that "That's not how Brecker does it," <BR/>bullshit. The Tristano approach of teaching people to sing and move <BR/>the solo through their breath and body is one way of taking standard <BR/>form, expanding it melodically, and finding new life for old ideas. <BR/>That's just one thing.<BR/><BR/>Because I learned in the old fashioned rarefied way-snare and hihat <BR/>meets 76-year old Boogie Woogie pianist, McDuff saying "quit playing <BR/>that bebop shit and swing. . .you're playing like a marching band <BR/>drummer, or crazy James "Jimmiapolis of St. Paul" Wallace playing <BR/>2-1/2 hour sets of uptempo bop-meets-Archie Shepp tunes-I learned to <BR/>be a flexible thinker and even more a reflexive listener.<BR/><BR/>Many young players simply don't listen to enough music or go beyond what they know. If you like Joe Henderson, then by all means listen to Don Byas and Lucky Thompson, understand the trajectory. You think Cannonball's the shit, then you've probably never listened to enough Frank Strozier or Lee Konitz.<BR/><BR/>That's why the phrase "ragtime to no time" is such a resonant rule to live by for me. I don't see any difference between Andrew Cyrille and Baby Dodds.<BR/><BR/>I've had paying, background music gigs where free playing became a subversive piece of poetry-it wasn't "what" you played, but "how loud" you played-I love doing brush gigs where you play tempo and energy without ever getting loud. . .controlled dynamics. People frequently confuse free playing with loudness, frenzy, and collisionary aesthetics. Not so. Listen to Paul Bley or Motian-masters of open, lyrical freedom. Great dinner music to try this on: Conference of the Birds. Played just under the level of conversation, mallets on a snare, with simmering (lyrical) tension.<BR/><BR/>Free playing works because it defies boundaries-it can be wild, wooly, soft and fuzzy, as patient as a piece of Morton Feldman, and despite what some of the more "non-idiomatic" young improvisers think-it can swing in a way that invites people in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com