tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post7181962756541637471..comments2023-12-04T09:29:06.375-08:00Comments on Casa Valdez Studios: Neck Strap hook analysis resultsDavid Carlos Valdezhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02338319345488366328noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-63638080759174024862017-03-03T11:40:51.472-08:002017-03-03T11:40:51.472-08:00I made my own brass hook fro a trumpet 1st valve s...I made my own brass hook fro a trumpet 1st valve slide finger hook. I played it against the plastic hook. I noticed s difference. bb55chevyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02466325429568910742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-56110260766403047332013-01-12T17:11:52.647-08:002013-01-12T17:11:52.647-08:00@Tobias You might be interested to know that abou...@Tobias You might be interested to know that about 90% (!) of the energy of the air column in a saxophone is imparted to the body of the horn. That's referred to as "thermal loss," as most of that energy ends up as heat. But on the path to becoming heat as it courses around the body, there is plenty of opportunity for that energy to re-radiate into the air column as harmonics. It doesn't take a whole lot of energy at the frequencies of upper partials to have an audible effect.<br /><br />Don't worry about a brass hook wearing out the strap ring, per my previous comment. <br /><br />Tweaking mass distribution for resonance seems to be the frontier of neck design. Theo Wanne, Steve Goodson, and Rheuben Allen have different but related approaches in their products. Players have been rigging neck weights since the big band era, and the concept seems to have caught on among producers of high end equipment. But, as your post implies, none of that cutting edge stuff matters if the player is weak (which I suspect is behind a the inability of certain people to appreciate its value).<br /><br />Here's another weird science thing to do that's kind of fun. Take your horn and have a friend hold the bell in a light strangler's grip. Blow some long tones as your friend gradually increases the pressure.GFChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05549932557269781077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-66160323229867658722012-07-09T13:31:09.610-07:002012-07-09T13:31:09.610-07:00I came to this nice article through Doron's pa...I came to this nice article through Doron's page (BSWE) ant left there a similar comment. <br />It’s interessting that on your side of the ocean many people think that material doesn’t matter. I had also “big fights” about that on SOTW and finally got banned about that.<br />There are people who say, the physics say, that it can’t matter. But they are interpreting their physics wrong.<br /><br />The saxophone vibrates in resonance with the air column. It’s just the air column that produces the sound. But the system saxophone has an backwards influnce on the air column.<br />So everything that dampens the vibrations of the horn “steals energy” from the system.<br />So everything that changes the Eigenfequences of the saxophone CAN has an effect on the sound. It doesn’t mean, that everything is hearable.<br />But this explains why material, finish and the mechanic has an influence.<br /><br />Now the weight of the sax is hanging on this hook, so of course it interferes with the eigenfrequence.<br />But in my experiences they are not that big.<br />There are a lot of “resonance weights” which can alter the sound a bit but in the end this are just toys. None of them really improves YOUR SOUND. None in the audience will hear if you play a metal thumphook oder one of plastic, but for a pro player himseld this small difference.<br /><br />But there is a practical reason for plastic hooks. Metal hook will wear of the ring where it hooked in.<br /><br />It's nice that someone finally made the work of backing up the heard scientifically.Tobias Leon Haeckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07801823221527405976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-43821426234884037312012-06-21T00:20:31.462-07:002012-06-21T00:20:31.462-07:00I already have a metal thumb hook, but I do believ...I already have a metal thumb hook, but I do believe that that also makes a difference in the sound. Ishimori makes a brass 8va key thumb rest, which is also supposed to make a difference. I gave one of Joe's straps to Charles McPherson and he said that he noticed a difference,"Hands down, no question", he said. He said it made his sound louder, more resonant, a little brighter and changed the response of some notes. He also thought that the brass hook slightly changed the way certain notes vented. He talked about how he used to play a Super-20 that had the three hook rings at different levels and how each ring made the horn play and sound totally different. The saxophone is a wonderful and mysterious thing.David Carlos Valdezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02338319345488366328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-85928956175159434502012-06-21T00:05:01.085-07:002012-06-21T00:05:01.085-07:00Thanks for the detailed investigation into this to...Thanks for the detailed investigation into this topic—I recently heard Greg Tardy testify to the difference a metal neckstrap hook makes for a player's sound, and I've been looking around on the Internet for some options to replace my current Neotech ever since.<br /><br />I'm just curious: have you investigated differences in sound related to switching between plastic and metal RH thumb hooks? Greg Tardy also suggested replacing plastic hooks with metal to improve the resonance of a horn, so I'd be interested to hear your take. Thanks again for this and everything else on this blog!Kevin Sunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10709953222533427417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-56944063840861867402012-05-31T00:17:20.991-07:002012-05-31T00:17:20.991-07:00@unknown 12:15
I had a similar problem some years...@unknown 12:15<br /><br />I had a similar problem some years back, from using narrow steel hooks. Brass is softer than steel. The hook on the Just Joe's strap is brass, so the wear should be shared between the ring and the hook. It is also thicker than a typical steel hook, so the wear should be more distributed.GFChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05549932557269781077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-31003817811888888852012-03-07T12:15:45.646-08:002012-03-07T12:15:45.646-08:00Interesting, well-written article.
After reading ...Interesting, well-written article.<br /><br />After reading it, I bought two of these straps, for may tenor and alto, and I find them incredibly comfortable.<br /><br />I did want to pose another question and see if anyone besides me has the issue of the metal hook wearing a groove in the ring on their instrument?<br /><br />I noticed on my YAS-62 this morning that there is a deep wear mark that I believe in the not-too-distant future will go all the way through the ring. I am hoping this is something not too expensive to repair.<br /><br />I didn't check my tenor yet to see if I am having the same issue.<br /><br />I bought the alto used a few months ago, and I don't believe there was a gouge in the connector ring. Before I bought the new neck strap, I was using one with a plastic hook.<br /><br />Thanks in advance to anyone who answers my queryUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02053943538666440790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-2031172440402555652012-02-06T22:29:53.468-08:002012-02-06T22:29:53.468-08:00Well said GFC! Thanks.Well said GFC! Thanks.David Carlos Valdezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02338319345488366328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-88757595683116423552012-02-06T19:07:02.673-08:002012-02-06T19:07:02.673-08:00I tested the effect of a metal hook by Jerry-riggi...I tested the effect of a metal hook by Jerry-rigging a case shoulder strap with large steel snap hooks as a neck strap, while deciding what to replace my Ray Hyman strap with. The increase in richness and presence of the sound was surprising. I also blind-tested the two straps with a non-musician friend and he also heard the difference the way I did. I could also minimize the difference by dulling my sound, so YMMV. Of course I ended up going for the Just Joe's strap with the large hook.<br /><br />File this one under the category of things we know happen but don't really understand. My horn is a Conn tenor with a strap ring placement quite different from the Selmers. <br /><br />Stick a fork in the credibility of the various self-promoting pseudo-experts who call the shots on SOTW, including the author of the Haynes manual.GFChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05549932557269781077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-38985213869726054972012-02-02T08:17:15.129-08:002012-02-02T08:17:15.129-08:00I bought a Joe's strap after reading your arti...I bought a Joe's strap after reading your article. First and foremost, it's one of the most comfortable straps I've ever used. Right there, it was worth the cost. But, beyond that, it has given my sound a bit more depth and presence. Thanks!Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14475665947410854252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-17933996645344642832012-01-16T19:38:28.016-08:002012-01-16T19:38:28.016-08:00You guys are crazy...don't you know that Charl...You guys are crazy...don't you know that Charlie Parker proved that material doesn't matter when he played that plastic saxophone? The only reason they make saxophones out of brass is so that those bastards can get away with charging thousands of dollars for a horn. I made my own horn out of mud and it sounds just as good as a Selmer Mark VI thank you very much.JasonMesciahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14236052713361279854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-20047041987824790482012-01-09T15:18:59.106-08:002012-01-09T15:18:59.106-08:00I too bought one of these neck straps after readin...I too bought one of these neck straps after reading your article. There was definitely a difference between it and the Neotech strap I was using. The sound seemed somwhat brighter, plus it was more comfortable on my neck.Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02502237293596978193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-90885740556646338952012-01-07T12:56:02.779-08:002012-01-07T12:56:02.779-08:00I suppose it's just physics. Metal reverberate...I suppose it's just physics. Metal reverberates. The next step would be to have the neck strap hook attached to a metal chain.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09788113953659261341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-1866945904796338632012-01-04T00:13:55.867-08:002012-01-04T00:13:55.867-08:00I got one of these neck straps a few weeks ago and...I got one of these neck straps a few weeks ago and noticed a difference immediately. It was kind of like having a personal monitor. It just felt like the sound was coming back to me really clearly.Eddie Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01221699628640029646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-62721245292644085352012-01-03T20:12:30.678-08:002012-01-03T20:12:30.678-08:00I love a happy ending. Several times in my career...I love a happy ending. Several times in my career, rare times, but more than once I've had this experience of being vindicated completely after having been vilified, and I know how good it feels, so <i>congratulations</i> absolutely, job well done, bravo. After your prior post on SOTW I didn't have the opportunity to try the brass hook, but I did take a closer notice of the difference between the utility-plastic strap and my steel-hook string-strap, and I'm pretty sure there is a brighter sound with the steel and string vs plastic and belt, so I'm already changed in that regard, but thanks for posting this follow up, and thanks too to your students for arranging the test. <i>Slay 'em with Science</i> I always say ;)teledynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15387640373550962501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-57113469534064531332012-01-03T13:54:12.651-08:002012-01-03T13:54:12.651-08:00Very interesting, and surprising. In addition to t...Very interesting, and surprising. In addition to the future testing you mentioned, I would also suggest double-blind testing, in which nobody knows which neckstrap is being used until after the tests are over.Brethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10492236135558088425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13630144.post-13434245103493996592012-01-03T13:02:56.003-08:002012-01-03T13:02:56.003-08:00Great article. This strap is on my to get list thi...Great article. This strap is on my to get list this year.ericdanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08273544927487852639noreply@blogger.com